Stop Feeding Audiences Digital Junk Food with Dr. Imran Rashid

Key Takeaways:

Podcast Transcript

 

00:02:14:01 - 00:02:15:22
Oliver: Imran, welcome to the show.

00:02:15:22 - 00:02:17:08
Oliver: How are you doing?

00:02:17:10 - 00:02:19:07
Imran
Fine. Thank you and thanks for asking.

00:02:19:07 - 00:02:20:14
Imran
I'm feeling good.

00:02:20:14 - 00:02:21:20
Oliver
so as a way of introduction, could you please tell us a bit about your experience? And as it's the audience
connection, who is your audience and how do you connect with them?

00:02:30:13 - 00:02:38:23
Imran
Yeah. So basically, as you said, I'm a trained physician. I was I turned into a
tech entrepreneur like a decade ago because  I was really interested in technology to see how it could improve and enhance
my, way of working as a doctor. And that was it was in that time where I stumbled upon the flip side of the
digital tools that we were using, all of us, in that research process, I wrote a book that quickly became like, a bestseller
here in Denmark, where I, I'm, located, and then basically I was the one driving. I've been driving that
conversation here, in, in Denmark for the last decade or so

00:03:18:00 - 00:03:38:04
Imran
My audience. Yeah, it's basically everyone who's concerned about how
screens affect human beings. Right. And that's everything from, you know,
business, people who are looking at productivity at work, stress at work, or to
families who are concerned about the well-being of their kids or their family
situation.

00:03:38:04 - 00:03:41:17
Imran
It's also politicians, right? Because, they don't know what to do, and they need someone to basically put words into the problem. They can see
the problem, but they don't have any words around.

00:03:48:21 - 00:03:58:14
Imran
They don't have any knowledge about it. They don't know the difference
between a screen. You know, being good use for good or a screen being used
to manipulate people.

00:03:58:19 - 00:04:04:01
Oliver
What's interwoven into society now, isn't it? And like when you talk about, hey,
I'm trying to go in the opposite direction, it feels almost like an impossible task at this stage.

00:04:07:17 - 00:04:29:23
Imran
It is, but it's the most important task. I mean, because it's also, why this is the
most important task at hand, is because we're the last generation who has
actually, has a chance of changing things after us. There's no one there who
knows the alternative. You know, the generation coming up or being raised
these days.

00:04:29:23 - 00:04:52:21
Imran
Now for them. Algorithm, external acknowledgment. And, likes and all of that,
you know, impact that, commercial products can have on their lives. That's
basically just the normal. That's how they live their lives. Right? So if you want
to change things, we're basically the last generation who are able to see the
difference in how it should be and how it could be.

00:04:52:21 - 00:04:58:06
Oliver
But there is that as you've worked on and you've written about there are, there
are things we can do.
00:04:58:06 - 00:05:16:17
Oliver
And I think, you know what, be really nice to talk about as well. And this session
is, is a bit around how brands can help with that, you know, see our audiences
around, you know, branded content and storytelling and how we can use that to
try and make people feel things rather than just going for clicks and likes.
00:05:16:17 - 00:05:31:02
Oliver
Now, when we first spoke, I think you pulled me up because I said, you know,
we're looking at what authentic authenticity looks like, and you're here to stop
me. You're like, no, it's what authenticity feels like. Can you talk a bit about that,
please?

00:05:31:02 - 00:05:41:11
Imran
science tells us that, only around 50% follows the doctor's orders. And that
was a really big frustration for me.
00:05:41:11 - 00:05:47:16
Imran
I and I quickly discovered that, the tech industry, they know how to change
people's behavior.

00:05:47:18 - 00:06:02:09
Imran
And that was where I thought, why couldn't I, like, harness that power and use
it for good? I mean, if you can get people addicted to cat videos, why can you
get, people addicted to, eating healthy,

00:06:02:09 - 00:06:22:16
Imran
And that's also why we need to change how we help people. Don't tell it, make
them feel it. And that's why authenticity is not a matter of telling people or
wanting to become, more authentic, etc..
00:06:22:18 - 00:06:25:19
Imran
It's actually about how you impact all the people.

00:06:26:03 - 00:07:02:21
Imran
If you like someone, you want to follow their advices. You don't feel like a
patient to them. Yeah. No, you don't feel like a patient. You feel like a human.
So that's basically interesting, right? Because the moment you, create the trust,
you, people can feel that you're authentic because the micro imprints
expressions you have, how you listen, how you pass on the, the your hands,
everything, I mean, you what is the human experience that you provide to other
people?

00:07:02:23 - 00:07:05:09
Imran
It's not what you say. It's not the.

00:07:05:09 - 00:07:22:11
Oliver
Words. I mean, it doesn't get in the way of that. Then if that's if that's what
you're kind of that response from a doctor when you're sat opposite them and
you. Yeah, I really trust this person. I actually quite like them. And I trust look
after me. Once you start doing on zoom or you start getting these virtual
doctors that that removes all of that, right.

00:07:22:11 - 00:07:25:06
Oliver
Did you have that problem when you were looking at that tool? Yeah.

00:07:25:06 - 00:07:41:01
Imran
and we also, found out that if you have, like, an appointment with the doctor, if
you, have the first conversation, face to face, then the rest doesn't matter.

00:07:41:03 - 00:07:49:07
Imran
You can have as many consultation with that doctor afterwards on video. Why?
Because your brain will fill out the blanks.

00:07:49:13 - 00:08:01:11
Oliver
Does it have to be in person. What's the you know, there's obviously a lot that
you gain from that in-person connection. But does it have to be in person or are
there ways you can fire this up without it. You know even in a remote
environment.

00:08:01:16 - 00:08:25:00
Imran
So basically this is about the hormones in the brain, right? We have this
connection hormone called oxytocin, which is the kind of hormone that tells
you someone is when you are being touched by others or you know, with, eye
contact and, all of these things, that triggers you in the right direction, like, oh,
someone loves me.

00:08:25:00 - 00:08:26:11
Imran
So I'm feeling seeing.

00:08:26:11 - 00:08:44:23
Imran
So you can't replace the human connection, which means that this, at best the
voice. And of course, looking at a human being, it's okay, but it's not the same,
as what would happen in a real life situation.

00:08:45:03 - 00:09:21:22
Imran
So what we're doing here is we're cutting the quartz between humans, brains.
And we are, not necessarily replacing them with something that's just as good.
Which would mean, in my opinion, like trying to water a plant with a picture of
water. See, this is what I think is the moon. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, because I is
someone who built something with the purpose of making you do something.

00:09:21:22 - 00:09:36:21
Imran
Now, of course, if AI is used as a tool, fine. But the problem is, it's the same
actors who have been preying on our social graphs and social connections for
the last ten, 15 years. We're going after, our, critical thinking as well.

00:09:36:21 - 00:09:49:16
Imran
I mean, there are a lot of the basically the problem here is that no one has
examined or studied.

00:09:49:18 - 00:09:58:13
Imran
What is the impact of putting these, massive, powerful technologies out in the
hands of everyone?

00:09:58:13 - 00:10:32:04
Imran
we've talked about the attention economy for the last couple of decades. What
I foresee and what I've started to look into is what I call the intention economy.
And that's where you, as a service provider, experience creator or product
maker, looks, at the customer, not just their attention, but also what is the
intention and the intended use and the consequences of your product being
massively successful and basically taking, responsibility for that.

00:10:32:04 - 00:10:49:03
Imran
What if Coca-Cola is insanely successful? What what does that lead to? Yeah.
Like, you know, Americans drinking two liters of, as the regular standard. Right?  Then you're successful. But what is the cost?

00:10:49:05 - 00:11:01:00
Imran
Yeah, yeah. And I think. Yeah. So that's why we need to also change the
narrative about putting, planet and people, before profit.

00:11:01:00 - 00:11:14:09
Oliver
So if we think about brands and what they need to do to be more intentional
with how they they engage, what's the first step, would you say, if you know, if
they need to be more intentional about what they're putting out, what would
you advise they do.

00:11:14:11 - 00:11:50:00
Imran
Redefine who you're targeting. They're not eyeballs. They're not customers.
They're not segments. They're not, clients or whatever they are. They are
humans, basically. That's the key. Starting point. You're targeting humans.
Okay. But humans? Yeah. Humans who now then things mostly feel fear. Wants
to do something. They have a lot of things in common with you. What you like,
they like something else, but still they need something, right?

00:11:50:03 - 00:11:53:19
Imran
So basically, carve out how are you helping these people?

00:11:53:19 - 00:12:23:06
Imran
I would say some of the companies that has misused this emotional impact in
the worst manner is actually meta Instagram, etc.. Because they know that
what drives engagement the most is fear, rage, people feeling bad, loss
aversion, not just that, but also just, you know, making people angry, because
anger drives our behavior a lot faster because it's more important for us to
survive than it is to feel good.

00:12:23:06 - 00:12:27:17
Imran
If you feel good, you won't use Facebook. You will go out and enjoy your day.

00:12:27:17 - 00:12:30:11

Oliver
is it just the case that we need to remove all of this and that?

00:12:30:11 - 00:12:44:15
Oliver
I'm I'm, I guess what does that mean for brands. But everything's blocked
which is increasingly happening. Like you know there are ad blockers.
Everybody's put out block as if they're sensible on that on the desktops or, you
know, what does that mean? I mean, do.

00:12:44:17 - 00:13:11:19
Imran
Is back to what we talked about, the human connection. When you're sitting
and creating content, think about what are you saying to who and why.
Normally when I want to, you know, post something, I have this, like, why this?
Why me? Why now? I mean, basically put the context, make the context
relevant, and know it's not about force feeding people with your product
because some people don't like your product, they don't need it.

00:13:11:21 - 00:13:28:01
Imran
And that's been the strategy for many brands today that as many people as
possible that reacts on our, ad is, is good for business. No it's not if they don't
need it and if it leaves them, you know, a feeling worse than before they saw
your ad. You shouldn't go that way.

00:13:28:01 - 00:13:34:22
Imran
at least what you should be doing is have your morals, standards, at a certain
place

00:13:35:16 - 00:13:38:05
Imran
Yeah. I think that's important for everyone. Have you seen.

00:13:38:05 - 00:13:45:07
Oliver
Any examples of campaigns or where brands have done this really well, where
they've prioritized attention over attention.

00:13:45:09 - 00:13:55:19
Imran
this, aura ring.
Yeah. So one of the most one of the, the tools that I'm really happy about is,

00:13:55:21 - 00:13:57:13
Oliver
Oh, yes. Yeah, I've seen that.

00:13:57:15 - 00:14:19:16
Imran
Yeah. Why? Because it provides me with, insights that can help me in my
everyday life. Thrive. Better plan better, be more careful about how I go around
and, and spend my energy when I have to rest. I mean, a lot of the things that
that matters to me, because

00:14:19:16 - 00:14:29:08
Imran
normally, And that's why I really like the phrase they have, which is like, giving
the body a voice.

00:14:29:10 - 00:14:35:20
Imran
That's, in my opinion, intentional, tools that can help us do things better.

00:14:35:20 - 00:14:43:10
Oliver
emotion?
in terms of like clicks and tracks and views, is there a reliable way of tracking

00:14:43:10 - 00:15:24:05
Imran
I mean, everything going on today on social media platforms are basically, the
biggest AB split test in history. Right? You know who's clicking on what y yeah,
you know, who's, scrolling through something, who's not scrolling through
something. And that data point, these data points are like, crazy enough.
They're precise enough for, these companies to, to predict, like, you know, the
future for, a lot of other, I mean, the future a many years ahead, for how we,
behave, because our emotional system and the reactive parts of our brain are
fairly predictable.

00:15:24:07 - 00:16:02:11
Imran
I was in a company, at some point where, I work with a company that focused
on, changing people's behavior, like, through this platform where, coaches
could help their clients become happier and healthier through, you know,
fitness, gym, etc., like coaching and, the data points there were strong enough
for us to be able to predict who would be dropping out in the next, two months
with like 95% of accuracy based on the data points that we could collect.

00:16:02:13 - 00:16:42:01
Imran
So you you have everything today that you need in order to, predict who's
going to do what and who's going. I mean, who needs what when, like, for
instance, a car crash. It doesn't happen when the car crashes. You can detect
it when the driver starts nodding with its head, like five kilometers before or,
based on the driving patterns, the micro steering, I mean, like, you know, all
those things, are small signals that ultimately becomes like, change of behavior
or, resulted in, in your car crash friends or a car accident.

00:16:42:03 - 00:16:49:04
Imran
So that's why we need to become better at picking up the small signals, like the
lead indicators,

00:16:49:13 - 00:17:06:08
Oliver
And you talked about like the overstimulation from digital environment that dulls
the senses and stuff. Yeah. Like quite numb and yeah. If you got any other
examples of where, how do we start to unpick that. How do we kind of improve
the sensitivity again other than unplugging I would say yeah.

00:17:06:08 - 00:17:33:03
Imran
when you have access to unlimited, you know, enjoyment, personalized,
experiences, that requires zero effort. Always on demand, ready to, you know,
be being a never ends. Of course, your brain will, stop, changing, and boredom
will become like a death penalty.

00:17:33:05 - 00:18:00:21
Imran
Like a death sentence that if you if you don't get that kind of stimulation, what
you will, suffer from will be like, sometimes I call it, abstinence. Right.
Withdrawal symptoms where you don't get these kind of, dopamine hits from
the digital stimulation, and also the amount of dopamine hits will also be, a lot
higher because the psychological mechanisms built into how these simulation
works.

00:18:00:23 - 00:18:19:03
Imran
I mean, the reasons why the phone is so addictive is because you don't know
what you get, and, and because you don't know what you get that resembles
the casino, right? It's the slot machine. If you knew that. Oh. Oh, that's a cat
video. No, I won't choose that. Then it would be a lot different than experience.

00:18:19:03 - 00:18:37:18
Imran
But because there's so much. Right triggering. Uncertainty built into the
experience, then you will constantly be looking for the next, you know, what's
happening in a minute, in a minute in a middle. So it's only the unexplored that
the, the expectation is the driver, which is a problem,

00:18:37:18 - 00:18:40:12
Imran
We have the saying that you become what you eat.
00:18:40:14 - 00:19:03:12
Imran
Obviously, you want your kids to be healthy, so you provide them with healthy
food. But the thing is also that you become what you click on because, these
kind of stimulations that are fast paced, that doesn't satisfy you, that constantly
wants you to come back for more is basically just mental fast food. It's mental
junk food.

00:19:03:14 - 00:19:24:19

Imran
You never get satisfied. There's always something more. But the difference
between physical fast food and mental fast food is that this never runs out. And
it's not a burger, it's your personalized burger with your taste buds. And every
time you want to open it, you have to say, oh, what is it today like? It's filled
with everything you want your friends out there for me?

00:19:24:19 - 00:19:50:00
Imran
Yeah, exactly. It's filled with everything you need. You ever dreamt of that? You
didn't know you need it? I mean, so that's why, they basically, place on every
psychological mechanism that they know for a fact works. That's what the
psychological, the social graph turned into to become a psychological trap.

00:19:50:00 - 00:19:54:03
Oliver
And in terms of like how it applies in terms of storytelling.

00:19:54:05 - 00:19:54:18
Imran
Yeah.

00:19:54:20 - 00:20:04:13
Oliver
It it it the, you know, these feel ability moments you get in a narrative or in a
story is there where you can kind of take us through why that's so powerful.

00:20:04:15 - 00:20:29:23
Imran
Yeah. So, the brain, doesn't remember, facts. It remembers stories. Why?
Because there are more emotional hooks, too. Like, oh, he did that. Oh, this
lion, broke free from zoo and started, walking down the walking straight in this,
children's book. Oh. What happened? That right already? Now, you know, that's
a lion. And you can see it free because there are pictures being made in your
mind.

00:20:30:00 - 00:20:48:16
Imran
But if I told you. Oh, statistics show that 30% of these people do this or that,
then it'll it'll just like, jump off, because there's nothing to be made. You can use
your imagination to, think of, like, but but the lion is something. Oh, I can see
the lion for me. Right. Is it a big a small line is a Simba.

00:20:48:16 - 00:21:10:19
Imran
Is it a Lion King? I mean, so there are so many associations. That is. So when
you make people, associate or relate to something, that's why you enter the
emotional system that they have that drives most of their behavior, that makes
them feel. So when you have access to people's emotions through their
associations, then you can stop working there.

00:21:11:00 - 00:21:23:10
Imran
Great. Inspiration, information. But it has to be some kind of, fun, also fun facts,
stuff that they want to know. Oh, interesting. That's where the magic happens.

00:21:23:10 - 00:21:31:15
Imran
if you don't put emotions into it, it'll be inhumane. We're not machines.

00:21:31:15 - 00:21:37:19
Imran
to stories.
So storytelling is important. Why? Because we remember stories. We can relate

00:21:37:19 - 00:21:43:18
Imran
And imagination has really this huge, force and power.

00:21:43:20 - 00:22:07:23
Imran
I'm writing a book right now about mental strength, how to become, you know,
better at, yeah, having mental strength in this world we're living in, and
resistance, etc.. And one of the things that we one of the studies that we, we
talk about is, a study where some kids were told to do some boring stuff, and
then they were told to motivate themselves in three different ways.

00:22:07:23 - 00:22:32:00
Imran
One were like, talk, about yourself in third person, like, come on, Imran, you can
do this. And the second group were told to talk about them in, in, first person,
like, come on, I can do it. And the third group were told they could choose
between Dora the Explorer costume or Batman costume, and then they could,
like, talk to themselves, say, come on, Batman, you can do it.

00:22:32:02 - 00:22:34:14
Imran
Who do you think you know?

00:22:34:19 - 00:22:38:01
Oliver
You got to be the third. You've got to be. Of course, Batman is going to be
nailing it.

00:22:38:01 - 00:22:49:16
Imran
Yeah, of course you actually can take on other people's. You can become a
superhero just by telling yourself that. That's what the imagination can do,
right?

00:22:49:18 - 00:22:59:19
Oliver
So, like Amy Cuddy, even, like in an adult context, the kind of superhero. Yeah.
Yeah. Lecturing or something, you know, just. Yeah, actually, physically, you
know, standing differently. You can actually do it that way.

00:22:59:19 - 00:23:41:07
Imran
You behave well, of course. So that's how, again, other people will perceive you
as someone they, you know, come to think of. So work with that part of humans
and, and, and walk a little, little bit, away from the data driven, other the
information based, interactions that we typically do, and yeah, if you help
people and they really feel helped afterwards, that's something that you can't,
you know, really put a price to because the loyalty, I mean, that will stick with
that will be unbeatable

00:23:41:07 - 00:23:50:15
Imran
that's actually what marketing or branding should be about. It's not about
selling products. It's about building trust. Yeah. Making people trust.

00:23:50:15 - 00:24:01:04
Oliver
Your intention and idea doesn't have about your value. Yeah. Your principles as
a brand. Yeah. That's what it all should come back to at the end of the day.
Exactly how you're putting out there. It's what you represent and what you're
trying to do. Yeah.

00:24:01:04 - 00:24:02:05
Imran
For people,

00:24:02:05 - 00:24:02:22
Oliver
And that's because.

00:24:03:00 - 00:24:03:12
Imran
That's.

00:24:03:14 - 00:24:03:22
Oliver
Obviously.

00:24:03:22 - 00:24:21:12
Imran
In the distance. Yeah. But it's a thin line. There is a thin line between being,
manipulative and being charming. The thin line, is it. Why are you doing this. Is
it because you want to impact them or is it because you. Yeah. What's the
underlying intention about.

00:24:21:12 - 00:24:22:22
Oliver
Me or you in this conversation.

00:24:22:22 - 00:24:48:00
Imran
Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Who's there for who's sake. Right. And that's basically
back to what I discovered and why I left the traditional medical space, because
I when I found out, okay, being a doctor doesn't necessarily help as many
people as I think it does, because I am telling people what they should be
doing. But knowing that only 50% of them are going to actually do it, most of
them are aren't being you're going to be able to do this right?

00:24:48:11 - 00:25:16:15
Imran
Who is actually getting them the most out of this consultation? Me or the
patient? Right. I'm getting paid for it. I'm feeling a good doctor. I'm saying
everything that's good, right? The patient is going back and feeling like guilt,
tripped or whatever. So that was also where I thought, okay, I need to do
something else. But in a broader spectrum, and that's where, you know, my
online clinic with 110,000 people, is, my audience.

00:25:16:19 - 00:25:34:03
Oliver
One thing that really stood out for me in your book was about the the care
homes and how if you don't have the right organizational structure. Yeah, you
they descend into, you know, treating the patients really badly or. Yeah, almost
sort of. Yeah. Psychopathic traits almost in that it does. You talk a little bit
around why that happens.

00:25:34:05 - 00:26:02:22
Imran
Yeah. Because if empathy, if showing empathy becomes your work and not
driven by it because you actually want to help people, then at some point you
realize that if you can't help anyone because it's I mean, they just like, suck,
suck out all the, the goodness in you. It's you don't have it and you don't get
like, acknowledged for the recognize for it or, or, even you get you don't get
any thanks.

00:26:02:22 - 00:26:26:04
Imran
No one says no one. So thanks everyone expects you to just, you know, pour
out your soul for, helping other people. Then at some points, you get what, the
term is called empathy. Fatigue is something that don't have enough empathy
left. You're basically just being like, like, a swamp being, like, drained for. Yeah,
completely worn out.

00:26:26:06 - 00:26:52:17
Imran
And that happens because and this psychological defense mechanism to avoid
that, it's become like cynical this become, be become better at telling stories.
Oh the other also treats are bad or, what is why she's, whining again. You know,
those kind of mechanisms come into play because you become too hard. The
alternative is to take everything in.

00:26:52:19 - 00:27:18:21
Imran
But you don't want to do that because you can't. And you suddenly you you
certainly don't want to face your own, inhuman, change that you have. Change
into because that would be like, so you only have two choices, right? Either
protect yourself, and, you know, suddenly it becomes the workers against
those they should be taking care of.

00:27:19:02 - 00:27:52:09
Imran
And that is like, the psychological mechanisms at play. That's why working with
people should always or shouldn't be about, it is a job. But when humans are
involved, you should always have some kind of, checks and balances of, the
human dignity being preserved. Because it's also it's not just job. It's also
about power. If you're taking if I'm taking care of you, I have power over you.

00:27:52:15 - 00:27:57:11
Imran
And that power can easily be misused, right.

00:27:57:13 - 00:28:06:20
Oliver
Well, we we talked a bit about your course as well. So you're developing a
course, is that right? Yeah. Do you want to talk a bit through about how that
how people can either join that or how it's helping people as well.

00:28:06:21 - 00:28:40:21
Imran
It's basically I made, two courses, online courses, targeting, designers, of all
kinds. Who wants to, understand these underlying mechanics or mechanisms
at play when you design for humans. Right. So first course was about
designing, how to like, put the human factor more in front when you're working
in the health care, when you were creating digital healthcare products,
services, experiences, then you need to focus heavily on the impact, all the
things that we've talked about.

00:28:40:21 - 00:29:26:05
Imran
Right. How to think about, humans. What are the obstacles? What are the,
underlying factors? I mean, basically, so you learn how to deal with all these
issues, at hand if you create products or services, for patients, that needs to,
you know, needs help. The other course was really interesting. Also, it was,
focusing more on, AI, how to use AI to basically improve the way we, built
products, services, experiences, again, with the same, thoughts around how to,
for instance, what are the problems in the gaming industry, the, social media
industry?

00:29:26:07 - 00:29:58:08
Imran
The, shopping platforms that you see, pornography, and also, streaming
services because all of these types of, digital experiences, could be perceived
as, what you call a digital simulation because their business models runs not on
conscious choices, but on impulsive behavior patterns. You're not. Never done.
Scrolling. You're never done streaming.

00:29:58:08 - 00:30:35:00
Imran
You never. I mean, they're endless, which means that the only the only barrier
or the only protection you have is your impulse control, which is limited, which
basically runs out, like, this, especially if you're tired. Right. So this course
takes you through if you're working in different industries, what are the do's
and don'ts and how do you work with AI and what how can you basically, put it
to better, use with the right moral compass and, what are the implications, how
to look at it and how to frame your work and how to, like, design.

00:30:35:03 - 00:30:54:09
Imran
What what's the design, process around it? What are the steps you need to
take, to make the right choices? And, where you don't, like, drive people over
with your products. So that's like the two courses coming out here in the,
hopefully in Q3 or Q4.

00:30:54:14 - 00:31:13:20
Oliver
Yeah, we'll share that in the show notes. And if anyone wants to check it out,
they can, can take a look. I've got a couple more questions, but it's just one
too, you know, if, if, if feasibility you talk about retraining our emotional muscles
as a takeaway. What's one exercise you give to a brand team in week one that
just starting out to try and change?

00:31:13:23 - 00:31:15:21
Oliver
What would you say the best thing is to start.

00:31:16:07 - 00:31:44:23
Imran
breathe in, breathe out. Simple. But, do it in ways that allow you to basically,
control your breath. Think about not just like something you do. I mean,
mindless breathing is one of the biggest issue we have because it it it, it,
doesn't help us to, to, get oxygen down what we needed to our brain and
everything else.

00:31:44:23 - 00:32:15:20
Imran
Which means that, when you are constantly breathing in ways that you don't
control, that will lead to you constantly being lacking. Your nervous system is
tightly controlled to your, breathing in or out so that when you breathe out,
you're basically pressing the brake on your nervous system. You're telling your,
body, your system that now it's time to relax.

00:32:15:21 - 00:32:40:17
Imran
So the more you, the longer you breathe out. The deep breath will allow your
system to relax when you're constantly breathing. Is short and, fast. That
means that you're pressing to speed constantly. The the gas pedal is kind of
being pressed, which means that you will always be like a little bit behind.
That's your nervous system that will be constantly alert and never find peace.

00:32:40:23 - 00:33:00:02
Imran
So I think that is one place where you should be, allowing yourself to get those
small moments. And to start with what you could, could do, put it in your
calendar, just like five minutes. Breathing exercise, small breaks, but close your
eyes and take some deep breath.

00:33:00:05 - 00:33:01:22
Imran
The thing is, when we're running around.

00:33:02:01 - 00:33:19:01
Oliver
Yeah, we we had an offsite. This is a number of years ago now. And before we
we started the day, we just we all sat down and did box breathing together.
Yeah. Felt a bit silly doing it, but actually we were so relaxed and connected for
the rest of the day. It is help. And you can use tech to do that, right?

00:33:19:01 - 00:33:24:06
Oliver
Little things like headspace or like you're going for it and and the can can help

00:33:24:08 - 00:33:52:18
Imran
One of the most important things that we need to start working with if we want
to, you know, go from being those reactive creatures and start being more
conscious about what's happening, what we want to happen. That's basically,
focus on creating that little space between the impulse that you receive and
then the reaction or the response that happens.

00:33:52:20 - 00:34:18:13
Imran
You get like a message and you react instantly, which that means that your
emotions will be the driver for that reaction. Right. But if you train yourself into
getting these kind of, or just recognizing what, okay, what's happening inside
of me and don't react instantly, but just, you know, what's happening and just
label it.

00:34:18:13 - 00:34:36:05
Imran
Oh, this happened, and now I'm feeling like that. Okay, fine. Recognize, identify
and choose because the choice is only something that happens if you get onto
the, get get, on the other side of the reaction.

00:34:36:07 - 00:34:51:06
Oliver
It's that something that's as well as, you know, from your, your let me see you
to acknowledge that you've come across this in your research, but is that
something that you've experienced personally in your work or your, your
personal professional life? You you had that yourself?

00:34:51:08 - 00:35:13:14
Imran
In my young days, I was, on the Danish national team in, taekwondo. So doing
martial arts, right. I've been doing that for 16 years. And obviously the
concentration and the focus and the ability to to control yourself and your, and
your, emotion, of course, is something that you also need to be able to do when
you work as a doctor.

00:35:13:16 - 00:35:45:13
Imran
Because that requires the right decisions at the right time. Which requires
experience. But the problem is that experience most so good decisions require
experience, but most experience comes from bad decisions. And that requires
you not to feel a bad decision equals, you being a failure. But basically, just
every time you make a bad decision, you're learning, you're improving, you're
getting closer to making better decisions next time.

00:35:45:15 - 00:35:58:11
Imran
And that's the difference between, the fixed mindset or the growth mindset.
Right? Be open for what the world wants to teach you, because then you will
never fail.

00:36:00:19 - 00:36:16:18
Oliver
You talked about your children being the inspiration for all of this, wanting to
leave the world in a better place. Yeah. What kind of digital world would you
hope they would be in in 20 years or ten years? What's your vision?

00:36:16:20 - 00:36:25:19
Imran
For 20 years? Wow. I mean, you wouldn't be able to imagine the world we're
living in today. Just like, five years ago.

00:36:25:21 - 00:36:26:21
Oliver
Yeah, yeah. True.

00:36:26:22 - 00:37:17:12
Imran
I mean, so I think, I think, I hope that most of their lives will be spent in
togetherness and closeness in, in, with caring people, listening people, loving
people. And where technology at what we have surpassed these massive,
diverting factors that fills our lives, today. Because just like you can say, when
you get a child that becomes like a massive wrecking ball in your system, an
emotional disaster in many way, because you are completely out of control.

00:37:17:18 - 00:37:47:06
Imran
But you are really, really focused on doing something that's good for them. It's
not about you. It's about them. And your epicenter of your life suddenly
changes where you suddenly understand why life is not about you and was and
never was. It's about someone else. And that is the reason to why you, you you
actually put in the effort to take care of your kids, and they grow up.

00:37:47:08 - 00:37:59:03
Imran
And hopefully at some point, they also discover that what I would hope for my
kids when they grow up is to have the same kind of impact when they have
their kids.

00:37:59:03 - 00:38:14:12
Imran
But I could be afraid that the generations growing up, they won't have the
capacity to feel the same way, because most of their lives has been about
themselves.

00:38:14:14 - 00:38:41:19
Imran
They have been the main character in their lives, and I'm not sure if they even
will know the difference or the need for someone else to enter that space. And
with that, you know, putting yourself in second space if they will be able to do
that. I hope so, of course, because ultimately that will fall back to us.

00:38:41:19 - 00:38:51:05
Imran
If we succeeded in being there for our kids, then they will be able to take that
exam with them. But, that's one of the things I can worry about.

00:38:51:05 - 00:39:11:02
Imran
Hopefully, most of their lives will be spent, as I said, outside, the digital world,
because it will have blended. We won't. I mean, hopefully they will look back
now as we look back on our parents, and, how they, smoke, how they used to
smoke.

00:39:11:02 - 00:39:34:08
Imran
Right. And it will be the same kind of, problematic behavior, when they think
back. Oh, oh, that was when we always sat with screens. And when the thing.
No. Of course. No. Why would you use screens? Hopefully you would have
seen I become immersed in how we live, but it would be I that helps us that we
control.

00:39:34:11 - 00:39:34:19
Imran
Yeah.

00:39:34:21 - 00:39:56:19
Oliver
We finish our episodes with the same question for everyone. And it's it's about
your audience of one. Yeah. So who is that person that you think of who's
really important when you're creating, when you're writing a book or, or doing a
talk, or when you're creating, when you're connecting with people, who do you
think of who has been really helpful to you when you're creating that voice in
your head?

00:39:56:21 - 00:40:47:12
Imran
Oh, there are different voices. There's some, you know, of course, my parents
are who I am. I always carry them with me. They they're not here anymore. But
I mean, I'm carrying them with me. The the the relationship with them is a
motivation for us. Right. So they're like someone pushing me in the in the right
direction. Obviously, my girlfriend is also, my audience of one because she's
my, toughest critic, critic, crit critic, and also the one I, learn most from
because she forces me to see me in ways that no one else does, and also to
take myself more, into account.

00:40:47:12 - 00:41:06:16
Imran
I mean, to be accountable basically for everything I do and everything I don't
do. So that's, I think and of course, my kids, they're also the reason to, you
know, everything else I do is, is about how they're about why.

00:41:06:17 - 00:41:26:05
Oliver
They're the way. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, that's. Yeah. Beautiful way to
end. And thank you very much for the time that you've given to us. And there's
loads of insightful stuff there that, that our listeners can take away. We will put
your course. And if anyone wants to find out a bit more, about Imran's books.

00:41:26:07 - 00:41:33:17
Oliver
All right, well, Imran Khan, thank you very much. It's been great to have you on.
And. Yeah, but what's new again sometime?

00:41:33:17 - 00:41:50:10
Oliver
That's it for today's episode of The Audience Connection, and a big thanks to
Doctor Imran Rashid for such a thoughtful and timely conversation. At the heart
of it, Imran's message is simple if we want to connect, we need to slow down,
feel more and think about the impact we're really having and maybe just be
more of a feeling.

00:41:50:10 - 00:42:00:15
Oliver
Fish, thanks for listening and if you enjoyed this episode, do leave us a review
or share it with someone who cares about making meaningful content. We'll
see you next time.