In this episode of Audience Connection, Lydia Chan sits down with Terrence Wiggins, Director of Global Marketing at Cook Medical's Vascular Division, to explore what it takes to build trust and tell authentic stories in one of the world’s most highly regulated industries, MedTech.

With over 25 years of experience, Terrence shares how effective marketing in healthcare goes beyond physicians to reach hospital executives, patients, and clinical staff. He explains how storytelling must adapt for each audience segment, whether it’s patient impact stories that humanize outcomes, clinical data that validates innovation, or economic tools that speak to hospital decision-makers.

The conversation dives into the balance between authenticity and compliance, highlighting how transparency and consistency earn long-term trust. Terrence also unpacks the interplay of data and emotion in storytelling, why innovation is central to brand perception, and how marketers can prepare for the future by focusing on personalization and proof-driven messaging.

If you’re interested in how to communicate with clarity in complex, regulated environments or how brands can foster deeper connections with audiences through authenticity and innovation, this episode is packed with insights.

 

03:46 Defining Multiple Audience Segments in MedTech Marketing

06:27 Creating Multi-Layered Content That Resonates Across Different Groups

11:19 The Shift from Product-Focused to Brand Perception Storytelling

14:49 Building Trust Through Authenticity and Handling Failures

24:49 Future Trends: Personalization and Proof Points in Regulated Marketing

 

00:01:51:18 - 00:02:14:08
Lydia
All right. Terence, really great to have you on the show. You know, for for the
audience. Terence and I met wow back in April. I feel like it was only a few
months ago, but now we're we're in August. But Terence and I met. Met at a
conference, and, Yeah, I thought it was, it would be really great to have you on
the show to kind of talk about your expertise.

00:02:14:08 - 00:02:18:18
Lydia
So I'll just kind of toss it over to you, Terence, for just a quick intro.

00:02:18:20 - 00:02:35:01
Terrence
Well, thank you. And first I want to say thanks for inviting me part of your show.
I did enjoy meeting you back in April. We had a nice little lunch together and
then sort of started continue to bond and having discussions. So therefore we
came across this opportunity, book for those who are listening. My name is
Terence Wiggins.

00:02:35:01 - 00:02:59:14
Terrence
I'm the director of global marketing for Cook Medical. Vasseur division. I lead a
global team focused on both upstream and downstream marketing, and I spent
over 25 years in medtech and my passion, my drive is really around, you know,
bringing that mission of helping interventional radiologists, cardiologists and
Basa surgeons navigate innovation and be able to tell our stories.

00:02:59:20 - 00:03:07:10
Terrence
There are marketing stories to get them to adopt new technologies that we
have here that cook. So that's a little bit about me, hopefully 30s or less.

00:03:07:12 - 00:03:31:09
Lydia
Well, thanks for that, Tara. And so, you know, for on this podcast, we, we focus
directly on audience connection. Right. So, what's really important is to define
our audience. And, you know, when, when we spoke, you mentioned not just
talking to one group of individuals. Right. And I think this, this this is, you know,
the same for a lot of different companies, right?

00:03:31:09 - 00:03:46:15
Lydia
It's not just about talking to consumers. Sometimes we have to talk to
stakeholders and other, you know, individuals that, that we need to connect
with. So who who are your audience groups? And, you know, how do you, I
guess, define them into segments.

00:03:46:17 - 00:04:07:22
Terrence
And that's a great question. You know, when we look at audience group, it's
changed, I think traditionally because we deal in medtech and medical devices,
the primary audience were physicians that are using our devices that ultimately
serve their patient needs. Right. But fast forward to this new age in time. What
we're doing is our message is a little bit broader.

00:04:08:00 - 00:04:39:13
Terrence
Our message is talking to the CFO of the hospital and understanding how we
can, be of value to reduce case costs and drive, more patients in and out of the
facility. You know, a question or a tool we may use is, is some type of economic
tool or dashboarding type tool. Another opportunity that we talked to is we look
at for a, for example, maybe a short testimonial, for the patient and their family
to understand the medical device that they're getting right is is helping them.

00:04:39:15 - 00:05:00:23
Terrence
Physicians can use that in their, in services, in their, clinicals, right, to
showcase around the technology through models where, like I say, patient
stories as well. Obviously the physician is is definitely a segmented area.
Understanding that we our devices or any medical devices right, can show that
it's going to mean an unmet need or show that it's going to be ease of use.

00:05:01:03 - 00:05:35:18
Terrence
Or like I said, it's going to provide those that that true value proposition of why
this product versus the other product. And the last segment is really the staff,
that's helping the physician. They to have, you know, obviously families they
need to get home to and they want to make sure that the devices that they're
using, they understand how to troubleshoot it, make sure it's available, prep it,
sizing, whatever they need to do to make sure it's a good case overall and
being able to showcase, you know, like I said, the product and how it works and
why it works well is part of that storytelling as well.

00:05:35:18 - 00:05:41:16
Terrence
So there's really like four maybe more. I'm probably forgetting some. When we
put together our stories. That's what we're really focusing on.

00:05:41:17 - 00:06:11:10
Lydia
You know, these these different groups care about different things. If you can
break down for us, just kind of what each group, what resonates with this
group. Right. And and maybe and this is kind of multilayered. Right. But you
know, we I always think about content in, in a sense of like, how do we go
about this particular whether that's story or project and how do we reach all
these different groups within the same like project or scope?

00:06:11:14 - 00:06:27:16
Lydia
And what I mean by that is that if we're if we're going about, you know, a
patient's story, how do we create content out of this patient's story or out of
this interaction with the patient to hit all these different groups? Right. We love
to hear about that.

00:06:27:18 - 00:06:53:16
Terrence
Well, again, I think it's important to be able to show how is that really driving
those patient outcomes with that patient's story. It's a very humanizing
opportunity. When you see a video and that patient on the other side could be
your mother, your father, your grandmother, your on your uncle, your daughter,
right. And understanding how it's it's able to help whatever that that specific
disease state.

00:06:53:16 - 00:07:15:15
Terrence
Right. Because we we actually have a couple different products that are
multiple disease states that they focus on and showing case, like I said, how it's
driving value for a quality of life for that patient. That's important. Again, for the
physician itself, how can he or she be able to use that device to be able to get
to that end result of what that's supposed to be?

00:07:15:15 - 00:07:39:13
Terrence
Or sometimes, let's be real here, devices don't work as expected. How do we
troubleshoot them? Right. How do we work through some of that, some of
those areas. And then at the end of the day, also hospital executives, you know,
their time is very limited. I'm bombarded with, a lot of different messages, and
we need to show that our devices can have a clinical outcome and have a
clinical impact.

00:07:39:15 - 00:08:07:23
Terrence
That directly ties the financial that connect directly ties to the operational
opportunities as well. So therefore, they have that peace of mind that they're
providing their physician, employees with the best tools to be able to have and
drive, like I said, those great patient outcomes. So it's really just thinking about
the audience and thinking about the tools that you have and which tool to pull
out or which story to tell about that tool to be able to, you know, drive impact.

00:08:08:00 - 00:08:26:16
Lydia
Yeah, yeah, I guess let's, let's get down to the practical like tools. Right. You
know, when you think about the different audience groups, you know, what
tools, in your experience has worked really well for certain groups and actually
just, like, don't work at all for other groups.

00:08:26:18 - 00:08:44:05
Terrence
Yeah, that's a great question. I mean, when you I'm going to take a step back
and think about the channels on how we, we sort of, you know, embrace and
then you can talk a little bit about the tools and why they're impactful or why,
for example, I'll talk a little bit about social media, social media, as you would
say.

00:08:44:05 - 00:09:09:12
Terrence
And I'm not talking about Facebook or Instagram. You're not really going to see
our products there. You may hear about our company there, but you'll see the
impact really, maybe on on a LinkedIn where you have a bunch of physicians
that has used the first case of a device, and it's inspiring maybe two others to
really try to drive that awareness of why was that case so successful, or why
did that go so well.

00:09:09:12 - 00:09:29:03
Terrence
Right. And so therefore that brought into your message from an awareness
standpoint, because you're in that awareness area to maybe drive engagement
and then what happens is maybe it's a physician, maybe it's somebody in the
hospital where they're going to the company website and, and trying to find out
how they can get, a local rep to come in to do an in-service or some type of
training.

00:09:29:08 - 00:09:58:17
Terrence
Medical education is a big piece of this. Again, these physicians are obviously
go through medical school and trained, etc., but the devices are constantly
evolving, right? The device that you were trained on, maybe 15, 20 years has
changed, or there's been new devices or new iterations. So I think that's
another piece of it is getting that inside the hospital and then obviously getting
it on contract, whether it's a GPO contract, getting it, you know, sort of, on the  shelf.

00:09:58:17 - 00:10:16:21
Terrence
And then being use is, is a full sort of process. And those stories, the tools that
you use, it could be from economics, could be clinical, it could be just as simple
as, you know, look at look at how this case perform. But there's a lot of
different tools that you use within those that storyline.

00:10:17:00 - 00:10:42:10
Lydia
There's definitely a lot of different tools at our disposal, but I guess it's really
how you tell those stories and you know what tools you use to tell those stories,
right? So, you know, for us, when when we think about storytelling, it's, from a
filmmaking perspective, but there's many different ways of of telling stories
such as, whether that is again, through copy, or, you know, literal like
presentations as well.

00:10:42:10 - 00:10:55:20
Lydia
So I guess, you know, what have you found to be the most effective, in, in
trying to achieve certain goals, right. For, for each of, you know, the audience
groups that you're speaking to, you know.

00:10:55:22 - 00:11:19:05
Terrence
You're reminds me of a story that I just a real life example that has literally
happened. And I think it's around trying to drive that connection and not
beyond just beyond the product. Right. That connection to the company, that
connection to why should you use this sort of procedural solution and why
does it matter? And I'll give you a quick story.

00:11:19:06 - 00:11:38:01
Terrence
You know, me and my team was able to sit in front of a chief of acid surgery out
of Chicago, and we really wanted to talk around brand perception of us as a
company where we're going, where we've been, what's missing? What do we
need to highlight? And we had some challenges in the past, from a brand
perception.

00:11:38:01 - 00:11:56:06
Terrence
And we we outlined that. I mean, you know, we came out of Covid, there was
obviously some, some supply chain, not just my company, but others we came
out of, maybe some lack of innovation. And when you're not innovating,
obviously your brand perception scores sort of not, you know, they don't go in
the right direction. You want them there to drive.

00:11:56:10 - 00:12:15:01
Terrence
So I think showcasing why some of those things has happened and also maybe
a take a peek underneath the hood and, and look at who we are as a company.
What happens is you drive that deeper connection. And I saw the the shift
literally on the on the call was from a you're trying to sell me to devices.

00:12:15:07 - 00:12:43:10
Terrence
Oh I really understand the impact that you're making and what you're trying to
do with the innovation pieces. And now it turned me from a, you know, maybe
hands folded to embrace, how can I help? And yeah, that's a great story.
Without, you know, video or anything like that. It's just having that and being
able to approach physician communities to, to see could showcase all the
things that we're doing, to add value for the future.

00:12:43:12 - 00:13:12:03
Lydia
That's a great anecdote, right? I think, it's really identifying what stories we're
telling. You kind of need to think about, like, like you said, like actually, this
story's about innovation, and that is what the audience is really gravitating
towards right now at this moment in time. And I think that's super important,
too, is like thinking about where we are at this moment in time and how do we
create content that is is connecting with with people.

00:13:12:04 - 00:13:32:09
Terrence
You to ask what's what's in it for them, right? I mean, we all we only have so
minute, so much finite time, and there's so much happening and so many
different stories. And really I think asking questions, better understanding. And
it goes back to the connection. The deeper you know, your customer or
whatever story you're trying to tell, you can tailor to that.

00:13:32:14 - 00:14:00:14
Terrence
I've read this book and I've read a lot of Seth Godin book. He's he's a marketer,
which I love learning from. And, you can Google him, but he's an entrepreneur,
has done a lot of marketing for philosophical books. And he read this was one
book titled All Marketers Are Liars. Well, that's not right. We're storytellers. But
again, it's I think, what what what I got out of that book is telling an authentic
story, not just a story.

00:14:00:14 - 00:14:18:06
Terrence
Right? Trying to figure out what is that authentic story to that drives that
connection. That's what's important because we can all be told stories and we
all have that sniff test like, that smells a little funny to me, right? That's the
whole point of the book telling authentic stories of what is what matters.

00:14:18:07 - 00:14:41:13
Lydia
Yeah, no 100% agree with you, right? I would love to hear where you have seen
or even, you know, in your own kind of practice over the past 20 years when
when things have gone wrong, right? When or or not wrong, but it's like, oh,
you know, we really, truly believe this. This initiative or this way of, you know,
telling a story or what have you.

00:14:41:13 - 00:14:49:03
Lydia
Right. And that it just it didn't go the direction that we, we want it to go. And
what was learned to from it.

00:14:49:05 - 00:15:12:12
Terrence
Yeah, that's a great one. I think it has to go with setting that foundation of trust
and consistency. Right. And if you say one thing and it doesn't sort of if you
have a story and it doesn't sort of act the way it's supposed to, the device fails.
It you're having a difficult time or challenging time or the outcome wasn't
achieved.

00:15:12:13 - 00:15:38:06
Terrence
It depends on where your relationship is. Right? Have you've had a long history
of having good devices that that has been able to meet the needs of patients
and, and obviously have great quality? Or are you new, you know, and you're
trying to do that? Well guess what. You're probably bad first impression, but
there's ways to still get to the obvious point of how do you build out trust is
admitting that, hey, I didn't realize this was going to happen.

00:15:38:08 - 00:16:02:10
Terrence
Figure out a way to make it right and you may get a second or third chance.
And just being, I guess, like I said, trust and open and vulnerable to explain like
that didn't go well. Let's let's talk let's talk back what went wrong. Right.
There's a lot of different reasons. And we're not trying to, you know, pass the
blame or point the finger, but working together to get to an opportunity to
understand how you can build that trust.

00:16:02:13 - 00:16:22:19
Terrence
And then also, like I said, how the device can work or whatever the solution is,
can work the way expected and it takes time. It takes time and it takes a lot of
effort. But I believe for the right reasons, you know, I know the company I work
for, we are we really are focused on trying to drive those deep connection to
build that time together.

00:16:22:21 - 00:17:03:00
Lydia
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That there's a couple of things that you just mentioned that,
that I really want to, dive deeper into. One of them is, is, you know, things that
go wrong and having to address it. Right. But but of course, in such, in such a
regulated industry, you know, a, an industry where there's, there's so much red
tape or compliance, you know, how, I guess, what advice do you have for other
marketers in, in similar industries, right, to be able to be vulnerable and be
authentic in your storytelling, but also navigate these, you know, restrictions
that are that are put on us.

00:17:03:02 - 00:17:06:11
Lydia
And how we, how we communicate externally.

00:17:06:11 - 00:17:26:02
Terrence
The one thing I like about working in the health care field is we are heavily
regulated, and we do have certain boundaries we have to play in, never want to
cross the line. We do want to go up to the line. And sometimes physicians may
want to push the line because that's how innovation is made and in an
experimental testing way.

00:17:26:02 - 00:17:48:02
Terrence
Right. And so there's ways on how you do that. But specifically in health care,
it's really focusing on making sure that we build that trust. We build that equity.
We have a great compliance team. Most companies do come have a great
compliance team to make sure we're playing within within those boundaries.
You know, you never want to go outside of that because there's obviously
consequences, right.

00:17:48:02 - 00:18:08:17
Terrence
And, I'm sure you can Google many stories of maybe companies that has sort
of, like I said, cross the line outside of those compliance areas. But the nice
thing about, you know, being here is we need to be able to understand that in a
regulated medical device area, we do have specific claims and and different
data to back it out.

00:18:08:19 - 00:18:30:00
Terrence
Our stories are backed by data to really drive the outcomes. Right. I can say
this X device is 75% better than their our competitor. Well, I can't say that
because I have to have the data. So the proof helps us drive those stories even
more. Right. What does the data say over a long term. And it's studied. It's
examined.

00:18:30:06 - 00:18:33:16
Terrence
And data points really drive some of our storytelling as well.

00:18:33:18 - 00:18:56:08
Lydia
Yeah, that's super important. I definitely have have that to touch on as well.
Right. You know, using data versus emotion, right, in our storytelling. But, I do
want to touch on the second thing that that came up from your previous answer
was was consistency. And you know, how it plays a role in earning trust with
your audience over time.

00:18:56:13 - 00:19:22:19
Lydia
Right? And I, I think that can be a learned thing across all industries. But I see
brands sort of not being consistent with what they're putting out in regards to
their, their stories, their content, their campaigns. It's almost like, you know, this
project's done wrapped. Okay, what's the next idea? Or like, what's the next,
you know, campaign or story, right?

00:19:22:19 - 00:19:52:18
Lydia
Versus trying to kind of build on this storyline over time to be able to build that
audience trust. What, you know, would you say is how would you convince
folks to really kind of put, put the seeds in, right, to be consistent and to. Yeah.
And that will earn trust for your audience. Like how do you convince both to
kind of stay stay true to that consistency?

00:19:52:19 - 00:20:17:09
Terrence
It's it's how you show up. It's how you show up, how you represent, how do
you go back. And you don't have to always point back to the proof points.
People are, can pick that up and they can notice that. I'll give you another quick
story, right. I have this favorite restaurant that's downtown, and I go to it, and,
and when I go there, I pretty much wear the same meal and have the same type
of drink.

00:20:17:11 - 00:20:35:08
Terrence
And it's that consistent, see, of that drink and that meal, I get the same
experience. Well, time there was some new management, new ownership. I

went there, food was a little bit of colder. The drink didn't have, you know, sort
of that same taste. I don't know if they did something wrong, but that's okay
because they built equity with me.

00:20:35:08 - 00:20:56:10
Terrence
Over time. You go there 3 or 4 times, and if you're not getting that consistency,
then what happens? You stop going to that restaurant, right? You start to try
something new. So I think it's important where it's how you show up. Even if
there was a change in management or, hey, we're going through some learning
troubles, etc. being transparent and being upfront about that is important.

00:20:56:15 - 00:21:20:13
Terrence
We take that story, translate into health care or just storytelling important if
there's things that is happening, being up front, showing that transparency,
having that as a value is is important and it make trying to make it right, trying
to make it right. And if you do those two things that add to that continues into
their consistency. Things may not be exactly how you want it, but you better
understand and you have a little bit more empathy.

00:21:20:16 - 00:21:29:19
Terrence
Right? So I think those two things, how you show up. Right. And in explaining,
being transparent will add to the consistency over time.

00:21:29:21 - 00:21:59:23
Lydia
Yeah, absolutely. I want to jump to that. The data versus the emotion. Right. I
think, you know, when we think about storytelling and again, from, from like a
video and filmmaking perspective and in the healthcare industry, a lot of folks
think about patients stories, right? But, you know, we we know and working
with a lot of healthcare biotech kind of clients that actually there's physician
stories, there's kind of the, you know, internal, recruitment stories.

00:21:59:23 - 00:22:29:22
Lydia
There's the thought leadership kind of storytelling. And then, of course, yes,
there's the patient stories. Right. And I think when it comes to data versus
emotion, there's always going to be a, a group, an audience that leans heavily

in one area and then a group that you should lean heavily on another area. So I
would love to hear your take around how do we use data versus emotions?

00:22:29:22 - 00:22:33:13
Lydia
And in that type of storytelling.

00:22:33:15 - 00:22:51:02
Terrence
And you know, what you can do with either or? When you say both of those
things, you can lead with the emotion, and it may grab some people to lean in
more and better understand and hit them with the infographic, hit them with the
data point. Right? We've seen that and I've seen a lot of pharmaceutical
commercials, to be quite honest.

00:22:51:02 - 00:23:21:05
Terrence
That's where I see it the most. Or you can do the other right with a with
alarming questionnaire or data point, 90% of patients have living with prefer
arterial disease. Learn how you can you know XYZ right. So both can be hard
hitting. I think I think it's important to have in your toolbox the opportunity to
experiment and do both, because some folks are going to want to lean in
because you did hit a you hit a fact, right?

00:23:21:07 - 00:23:39:13
Terrence
Facts tell, but also stories. So so then you have to think about, okay, you got me
with the hook. What is it? What does it what's that? Call to action? What are you
trying to make me do differently? Are you trying to make me if I'm a patient, are
you trying to make me visit a physician? If I'm a physician, are you trying to
change my practice?

00:23:39:15 - 00:24:00:19
Terrence
Right? Yeah. If I'm a hospital administrator, am I trying to understand the
benefits for the overall hospital? At the end of the day, a story is grabbing with
a hook again, data that you can do it with data. You can do it with patient
videos, but you should have something that you want to have a CTA right? A
call to action that learn more.

00:24:00:21 - 00:24:12:06
Terrence
Reach out here. Right. What is your overall call to action? That's the immune
part. But to answer your question, I think you can do both. And I think you
should do both to mix up the story a little bit.

00:24:12:07 - 00:24:35:12
Lydia
Yeah, I 100% agree with that. Right. It's doing both. But but again the sort of it
is it is it like 50%. Is it. You know, 5050. Is it, you know, 7030. And then where
right within that story, do you sort of hit them with those things? So I, I totally
agree with that. Well, Terrence, in kind of wrapping up and looking ahead.

00:24:35:14 - 00:24:49:16
Lydia
Right. What what would what should marketers in regulated or kind of high
stakes places like, like urine? What what should they be preparing for in, you
know, for the future?

00:24:49:18 - 00:25:17:00
Terrence
I think two things. It's around personalization. Customization. Right. And also
proof we talked a lot about on this podcast around the data. And I think if you audience expect messaging that's tailored to them. And that's the hard part,
because even if it depends on the the top of the funnel, the middle of the
funnel or the bottom of the funnel, you got to be able to understand again, why
does this matter?

00:25:17:00 - 00:25:38:22
Terrence
What's in it for me? And so hook them, bring them down to the funnel. But if
that story is still the same and it's not personalized, and if you don't have any
proof points, you might lose them outside of the funnel. So being able to make
sure you walk them through that storytelling telling algorithm and be able to
understand what what's in it for them, what's that segmentation?

00:25:38:22 - 00:25:53:23
Terrence
What's the persona? What what ultimately is the value that they're trying to get
to. And if you can really master that, I think any company that can do that very
well will be able to win the hearts and minds and win, win, win the hearts and
minds of of their customer.

00:25:54:01 - 00:26:02:03
Lydia
Well, Terrence, I think we can we can stop there. Thank you so much for, this
great conversation. I really appreciate having you on the show.

00:26:02:05 - 00:26:18:22
Terrence
Lydia. I want to say I'm very grateful to be here. I have a lot of passion and
energy for what I do. When I was an eight year old, you would ask me, what did
you want to do? I always wanted to be a marketer. Most people wanted to be a
doctor, a lawyer, a fireman. So anyway, people can follow me on social media,
follow my company on social media.

00:26:19:00 - 00:26:27:09
Terrence
I love what I do and I again, very grateful that I was be invited on to talk a little
bit more about what I do every day. So thank you.

00:26:27:11 - 00:26:45:15
Lydia
Thanks for tuning in to the Audience Connection podcast. If you enjoyed
today's episode, don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review. If you'd like to
connect with me about how I can help you tell about your stories and connect
better with your audiences. Drop me a note Lydia at Casual films.com. We'll be
back with more episodes soon.

00:26:45:18 - 00:26:46:14
Lydia
See you next time.