Oliver Atkinson sits down with Dr Paul J Zak, Professor of Economic Sciences, Psychology & Management at Claremont Graduate University and Founder/Chief Immersion Officer at Immersion Neuroscience, to explore how measuring emotion rewrites the rules of brand storytelling. Discover why he calls immersion “the give-a-shit metric,” and dive into the science showing you need just six peak moments a day to thrive.

The discussion ranges from a Diet Coke Super Bowl spot that won neurologic attention despite lukewarm “likes,” to a free smartwatch app that lets anyone track real-time audience resonance. Along the way, Zak unpacks the ethics of persuasion, reveals why AR often outperforms VR, and explains how emotional fitness could become the next health-insurance benchmark.

With 30-second Super Bowl ads now topping $7 million, learn how actionable brain data turns creative risk into competitive edge, and why slight “messiness” keeps stories human in an AI age.

For marketers, creatives and business leaders, this episode delivers actionable insights on crafting tension-rich narrative arcs, stress-testing content with second-by-second immersion scores, and designing experiences that amplify (rather than dull) genuine empathy.

Explore more from Dr. Paul J Zak:

SIX emotional-fitness app – Google Play Apple
The Little Book of Happiness by Dr Paul J Zak – available on Amazon and other major retailers Amazon
More of Dr. Zak’s work – pauljzak.com 

01:30 - Dr. Zak explains immersion as a neuroscience metric that measures brain signals predicting behavior, developed from military-funded research to identify what truly captivates attention and drives action

06:31 - The power of narrative arcs in storytelling - how authentic emotional states, tension, and resolution create peak immersion experiences that are memorable and provoke action

12:09 - The evolution from measuring neurochemicals through blood draws to creating the free Six app that tracks emotional fitness using smartwatch data

24:45 - The surprising Super Bowl case study where Diet Coke's "unlikable" Twisted Mango ad scored highest for neurological immersion, demonstrating why challenging content outperforms puppy-filled commercials

51:25 - The future of storytelling technology - why VR often underperforms compared to AR and 2D content in neurological immersion studies, and the importance of maintaining human friction in experiences