It all starts here

 

Lydia Chan (00:00)

Welcome back to another episode of the Audience Connection Podcast, where we explore the strategies and stories behind meaningful audience connection. In this episode, I'm chatting with Christine Sanders, a senior executive director at BuzzFeed, where she leads its editorial identity channels and branded content studio. Christine has over a decade of experience in bridging strategy with creative storytelling to drive audience engagement and revenue growth.

 

In this conversation, we dove into how to create content that resonates with particular cultures, the balance between assessing performance data and how much it should influence creativity, and how brands can successfully collaborate with editorial teams without losing that authentic narrative. So much to take away from this one, so let's jump right in.

 

Lydia Chan (00:02)

Okay, today I am joined by Christine Sanders. She is the Senior Executive Director at BuzzFeed, leading its editorial identity channels and branded content studio. Christine, welcome to the show.

 

Christine Sanders (00:17)

Thanks Lydia. Great to be here.

 

Lydia Chan (00:19)

It's really great to have you. I'm really excited about our conversation today because I work with a lot of folks who are in digital media, right? And bridging that strategy between storytelling and branded content is always top of mind. So I'm really excited to get your expertise in that space. So let's just get started with a really brief intro for our audience.

 

Christine Sanders (00:44)

So like you said, I am the Senior Executive Director for our branded content studio and editorial identity channels. So those channels include Cocoa Butter, which speaks to the interests of young black people, and APOP, which empowers young Asian Americans through the lens of food and creativity, and also Pero Like, which is our social-first brand for Latino millennials and Gen Z.

 

Lydia Chan (01:08)

Awesome. So I want to start with the editorial side, right? So BuzzFeed's audience casts really a wide net, right, which makes sense due to the carving of these channels, right, and making sure that we're speaking to very specific audiences. How do you approach that? How do you approach your channel narratives and go about defining these audience groups across these channels?

 

Christine Sanders (01:34)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So my approach is understanding these diverse audiences and recognize that they aren't a monolith. That's really big for me. That's big for my team. And within each racial identity and nationality, there are countless cultures, interests, and ethnicities. So I often say to my team that cultural specificity brings success. For example, we have two hit series on cocoa butter, like Food Swaps and Black People Don't Do That, which...

 

Food Swaps has been successful because of the cultural specificity. It's one of the few places on the internet where we're featuring Ghanaians try each other's okra stew or Jamaicans try each other's aki. These are all nationalities and dishes that people don't traditionally see in American mass media.

 

But we believe that matters to our audience. And we're definitely saying that these groups are not a monolith, and there's so many different cultures within it. And like I said, black people don't do that. It's a hilarious short-form series where one of our creators is debunking stereotypes. And one of her first episodes was black people at a renaissance fair. It's not something that you think about initially, but it's exploring the fact that that subculture exists. And it's really cool because when she posted it,

 

Yes, we had that subculture of black people at renaissance fairs, but then also the people who just generally liked the renaissance fairs and were coming to our channel and commenting on it and building like this little community within a community via our content.

 

Lydia Chan (02:59)

Yeah, but I guess get into the how, right? Cause that is, it's so specific, or there's just so many different, you know, avenues you can take content, right? So how do you find trends or just identify what would resonate with various different cultures and audiences?

 

Christine Sanders (03:23)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, I mean, it starts with BuzzFeed's overall DNA of it's always been identity driven. That's just a part of like who we are as a company. And then these other brands within BuzzFeed take that to the next level and really focus it on those specific cultures. You know, so I have a team of producers across every channel that really come from diverse backgrounds and are able to speak to those backgrounds, whether it's, you know, what it's like being LGBTQ in the Latino community or what it's like being a first-generation Haitian. And so it's really important for them to have their voices and speak to their experiences and their vulnerabilities that then resonate with other people. And it also introduces people outside of those groups, because we're all curious about other cultures, to understand those cultures better.

 

Lydia Chan (04:01)

Yeah. Absolutely, and I love that, right? It's about having those people around us, right? And having their voice be what drives the content. I think I was at brand storytelling, and one of the speakers was saying, If you wanna speak to Gen Z, look around the room, and is there a Gen Z sitting at your table, right? Because if there isn't, then you've already sort of failed.

 

Christine Sanders (04:33)

Exactly. Exactly. So BuzzFeed's approach is very different from, you know, when I started off in media, where it was this like top-down, what the boss says, and that's what we're going to do. But it's like, no, our producers know what is popular. Producers know what's trending. Yes, I have to know as well. But they're so close to all of these things, and they know what resonates with our audience.

 

Lydia Chan (04:37)

Yeah, well, what does that creative process look like? Right. I imagine it's super fun. It's super kind of interactive.

 

Christine Sanders (05:05)

It is. It's incredibly interactive. It's incredibly collaborative. It's incredible, you know, I'm big on, like, there's no bad ideas. Let's look through the lens of what our channel is and what our audience wants. We all have specific preferences. I'm a big art person, but that's not something that'll necessarily resonate with our audience. So it's like, instead of our personal things, yes, we're bringing some of that in, but also being very clear about what our mission is and who we serve. So the teams will have brainstorms that they'll do every week where they'll brainstorm ideas. They'll pitch things to my supervising producers, my executive producers, and sometimes myself if it's something that might be a higher lift or might need more resources. And then we'll also have a big thing for us. We've got really talented social strategists on our team, and they really drill down into the data, you know, and how our things are doing and, like, what tweaks need to be made and how things are resonating with our audience. And that's a big important part of our weekly sessions as well of like, you know, how did we do last week? You know, sometimes there's a fantastic week, and sometimes, like, okay, there's some changes that we can make. So it's creating the content, looking at the data, seeing how it resonates with our audience, and then also looking at trends and timeliness when it comes to creating content.

 

Lydia Chan (06:27)

Yeah.

 

Christine Sanders (06:27)

which is easy for editorial, not too easy for branded.

 

Lydia Chan (06:30)

No, no, for sure. And we're going to jump into that a little bit later, which I think it's a very important conversation, how brands should understand how to partner with editorial platforms. You brought up having these brainstorm sessions, and I think that is so important. How do you make sure that, I guess, other organizations are investing that time or allowing that time and that space to do that.

 

Christine Sanders (07:01)

Yeah, yeah, there's a few things. So we've had brainstorms both on the branded content and the editorial side, you know, for as long as I've been at BuzzFeed. It's a standing meeting. It's a great place, you know, also for people to come together and see what other people are working on. So it's beyond just sharing ideas. It's a way for teams to be more collaborative. It's a way for all of us to think differently about creativity through the way someone else is thinking about it.

 

It's a way for us to bounce ideas off, and it's really just like an open place for people to think bigger about their ideas and to get support from their team. So I see brainstorms; know, they definitely have some structure to them, but it's a way for folks to just think bigger about what they have going on and think differently and incorporate things from their colleagues that they may not have thought about previously.

 

Lydia Chan (07:52)

Yeah, for sure. Because when we're in silos, right, like just kind of in a corner in an office or at our desk by ourselves, just as humans, that doesn't spur ideas and creativity.

 

Christine Sanders (08:05)

No, and so, like, we have our offices hybrid currently. So, you know, people are in two days a week, and then they're out three days a week where they're working from home. So that's really when the brainstorms are important, because it's a way for us to get together even virtually to talk through things.

 

Lydia Chan (08:19)

Yeah, yeah. So you mentioned looking at the data as well, right? And I think there's a lot of conversations around data versus art, right? In regards to storytelling. I guess, what are your overall thoughts on that? What have you seen as trends in the data, right? And how has that influenced how people naturally create?

 

Christine Sanders (08:42)

Yeah, my gosh, I've learned so much. You know, it's so from where I started to where we are now in terms of, you know, editorial channels and how people consume content, and, you know, TikTok went away and now it's back. You know, sometimes things that resonate really well are things that are just shot on the phone, like ASMR stuff or a trend that someone captured, you know, in their kitchen. Tasty's big on just very simple top-down stuff with their phones or maybe with a DSLR, but generally it looks like it should be self-shot. Whereas the branded content world tended to be a bit more glossy and higher production value and all of those things. So it's me adjusting sometimes our branded content towards vertical social videos and really leading the charge with that. And that's been a big importance of our CEO is balancing the more polished look with stuff that can be shot at home that is easy to shoot because it's definitely more organic to a lot of these platforms. And that's how people are consuming content. It depends honestly on the publisher you're with. For BuzzFeed specifically, it's a lot of people that are shooting stuff with their phones. It should feel organic to the platform. It should feel easy. We've certainly done things with high production value, and they've gotten success with them for sure, but we also have to balance it with what feels organic to our audience.

 

Lydia Chan (10:11)

Yeah, and that authenticity has been really key for BuzzFeed, right? Because to a certain extent, BuzzFeed is kind of the go-to for trends, right? So that's where people really wanna go to to stay on top of trends, get entertainment, etc. I'd love to dive a little bit more, because you mentioned a specific, I guess, of style or execution, right? With more homegrown-looking content. But when it comes to format and length of content, is there a special sauce or a magic formula that you've discovered? Because looking at YouTube's channels, Cocoa Butter, APOP, and Pero Like, there's something around average length. I think some of that, I see kind of 10 minutes as maybe the average length, or take. And then there's real people involved, right? There's an element of curiosity, of discovery maybe for some of them. So what's the formula?

 

Christine Sanders (11:17)

I'm not telling you I'm not sharing the formula, but I will say that we definitely have different time lengths and go about our videos differently based on the platform that we're targeting, you know? So if it's YouTube, we'll think a little bit differently about that and more information-driven. Our food shows do incredibly well on YouTube, you know, whereas, you know, TikTok, Instagram, our content, Snapchat. Sometimes, they will be more shot with a phone, you know, and one-offs that the producers are like, you know, I want to go out and shoot this. And it's like, okay, let's capture it, you know, as opposed to, we do have some ongoing series on, that are short-form series for sure on TikTok and Instagram, but a lot of it is one-off videos that keep the channels alive.

 

Lydia Chan (12:06)

Yeah, and when you look at maybe serial types of content, right, what's kind of the sort of brief behind those? Because there is, like I mentioned, there's a lot of really interesting kind of discovery-type things, right, like you mentioned earlier with maybe various different cultures tasting each other's similar dishes, right, or done in different ways.

 

Christine Sanders (12:37)

Yeah, like what's the way that we go about ideating all of these things? So we have our existing series that do well, and that we build on those. That's the food swap for 2025; it's black people don't do that, but for Pero Like it's Latinos try. And it's like, okay, how do we keep feeding our audience these things that they love while also building on it and giving them more information or adding new things to it? For the one-off, know it's really the producer's gut. It's the trends that we see and like them saying, you know, something that we're leaning into for 2025 is sports, specifically for Cocoa Butter. So we've seen a lot of success with, when it comes to, like, the WNBA and black women in sports, that our audience has really gravitated to, you know? So one of my producers is working on various segments that we can do that are weekly that really give our audience what they want, but through the Cocoa Butter lens. So it's like something that will say, okay, we see our audience is really like gravitating towards this. How do we build on that, you know, but through our lens?

 

Lydia Chan (13:40)

I'm so happy to hear that, by the way, because I'm a big fan of the WNBA. So I'm glad that people are actually gravitating towards that content too, because that's what's going to amplify it.

 

Christine Sanders (13:51)

Mm-hmm, there's, you know, we see the swell coming and we're like, let's, you know, really get out there with

 

Lydia Chan (13:59)

Yeah, for sure. Before we jump into now branded content, I would love to hear about basically why it is so important for digital media platforms to create original content, or original editorial content. Because I don't see that as being as prolific, I think, as it should be when it comes to creating like video series.

 

Christine Sanders (14:31)

So when I took over the editorial teams, I would often say that I had to split my brain, like, you know, I still had the brand and content team. So I had to think in terms of clients, KPIs, and revenue and leveraging the editorial voice in order to make brand and content and my team to make brand and content. And editorial, it's about serving that audience. It's like, what does our audience want? What is our clear POV? What is our mission? Like, how do we differentiate ourselves from other people? You know, so it's like, they truly work hand in hand. Like, can't you know, you can't have a branded content studio without editorial. And, you know, the popularity of the editorial drives the branded content studio, you know? And the strong editorial voice drives the branded content studio.

 

Lydia Chan (15:15)

Yeah, it absolutely does. I would; I definitely want to see more just that visual storytelling, right? Because I think a lot of editorial is still written, which has its place, has its audience. But when we go to then the video format side of things, where I think a lot of branded content campaigns will always have a video element as well, then sometimes there's a little bit, not at this connect, but it doesn't go as far, right? If the platform itself has a video-driven editorial side. What are the challenges that you face when balancing editorial independence and then having a brand come in and say, Hey, I want a partner to do something?

 

Christine Sanders (16:35)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, you know, there's, when it comes to, we have different products at Buzzfeed, you know? So when it comes to managing the two teams, I take editorial independence very seriously, and I am making sure that, you know, they have the freedom to serve our audience, you know? And the brand of the content team, you know, they're more revenue-driven, and they're leveraging that editorial voice, like I said before, like leveraging that editorial voice in order to create branded content that's in the voice of us and serve our clients' KPIs. So, you know, based on the two teams I'm talking to, I definitely frame my talks very differently. And I, you know, with the editorial team, definitely try my best to not have a heavy hand in their say. It's definitely using my executive producers and my supervising producers to guide our overall mission, our voice, but to not try to deeply control what they can and cannot do because then we wouldn't serve our audience in the same way. But overall, BuzzFeed and all of my editorial identity channels are brand safe. They are places where people find truth and joy and feel good content. So there's not really much that I need to do in order to say yes or no; we can't post it. It's more so just around, is this aligned with what our voice is?

 

Lydia Chan (17:55)

Yeah, yeah. Are there any common maybe mistakes that brands make when approaching BuzzFeed?

 

Christine Sanders (18:06)

Never mistakes. We are always happy to… Never mistakes. You know, I'd say that having a clear, clear KPIs, having a clear goal and messaging around like what you're trying to get out about your brand or your product only makes life easier for the brand and content team. Cause they're like, okay, I can work with this when it's not entirely clear then sometimes we'll have to come up with it ourselves. And so it's a lot of like, well, what do you think? And we'll use our intuition to do that. I believe that trusting the branded content team is really important. Like they're the experts in this space when it comes to Gen Z and millennials and what is doing well on the internet. So really trusting that they know what will hit with their audience because they're the closest to it, you know? And what will resonate. So yeah, those are, I think, the biggest things. And then also, know, you know, brands want to say their, the name of their products, like, often in a piece. We all have been there. But sometimes less is more, and it only helps the story deeper when it feels like storytelling, and then the brand shows up organically, as opposed to, you know, mentioning it repeatedly throughout a piece.

 

Lydia Chan (19:09)

Yeah, do you have data to back that? Right, because I think we have that conversation all the time, right, with brands and clients and, you know, just saying it is not enough, right? Even though to a certain extent, we're all like, yeah, duh, right? It makes sense to me. But, you know, having the numbers behind it, having those case studies, is sort of what leadership needs.

 

Christine Sanders (19:51)

Absolutely. We have case studies; know, when we have pre-sale decks, all that, it's case studies about, you know, what has done well in the past. My team is always encouraged to include examples of past content, you know, in their pitches to really say, like, you know, this is why we're the experts. We're not just telling you why we're the experts. We're also showing you our previous successes so that you can see them and share them with your stakeholders as well.

Lydia Chan (20:16)

Yeah, no, that's really great. I mean, it's really great that there is that data behind, convincing brands that, hey, you don't have to mention your product or your brand in the first three seconds or even almost anywhere.

 

Christine Sanders (20:29)

Well, no, no, no, I definitely think that, you know, it helps to depend. It's really dependent on the creative, you know, like truly dependent on the creative and dependent on the story you're trying to tell. There are moments when you can certainly mention the prize in the first three seconds. Like, let's say if this was sponsored by a brand, you know, you would have had that first call in of like, this is sponsored by blah, blah. And then we would go into our interview, but it wouldn't take away from it necessarily. You know, it's more so like when that call-out happens throughout, it can distract the audience from the actual story. And then, you know, then they'll click away and not get your full, all of the information you want to share with them. So, you know, it takes good storytelling.

Lydia Chan (21:12)

Yeah, and like you said, the trust in the creators, right? To be able to let the producers, the filmmakers, the storytellers, and the writers let that flow in a natural way without sort of having, you know, those crazy amend sessions, right? Feedback sessions. It's like, Insert here and insert this there. And it's like, OK, now it's getting very fragmented, and it doesn't feel like a natural play.

 

Christine Sanders (21:16)

Exactly. And they want you to win. They really want this to do incredibly well. So it's not any suggestions that they make. It's always in the best interest of the brand.

 

Lydia Chan (21:41)

Yeah, for sure. So Christine, I want to wrap things up with, how do you envision, I guess, this industry evolving in the future, right? Especially when it comes to technology and every conversation we talk about, someone mentions AI, et cetera.

 

Christine Sanders (22:15)

Yeah, this will be no different. You know, there's so much; it's something that's a big, it's a big part of our business at BuzzFeed. It's a big thing for our CEO. You know, we're certainly leveraging it via different tools through posts and games that we have. You know, I think it's

 

Lydia Chan (22:17)

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

 

Christine Sanders (22:39)

It can be used as a great tool to be more efficient for people, but it doesn't take away from the emotion. You still need the people there, you know, because people connect with videos online because of the emotion that they're getting from this, the relatability that they see, you know, the feeling. And AI can't give you that, you know, but it can certainly make you move faster, be more efficient, you know, be quicker, and all those things. So, you know, it's a balance between the AI and also the human knowledge.

 

Lydia Chan (23:06)

Yeah, for sure. I mean, that's even the same with everything else, right? When we talk about data, when we talk about brand, you know, play within the story. So it's always a balance, but always going back to the storytelling and trusting in the experts in doing that.

Awesome. Well, Christine, guess any last sort of advice for marketers when thinking about engaging with, you know, digital media companies or just, you know, in general, how do we create editorial content maybe for ourselves as brands?

 

Christine Sanders (23:48)

Yeah. You know, clear communication is always important. You know, having it try to not have a whole lot of stakeholders, you know, in the creative, you know, having a few people that you trust to give feedback and to give notes always makes it even better. Having clear KPIs, you know, and, like I said before, trusting the branded content teams that you work with, you know, being clear about what your expectations are, but then also trusting that they want for your videos to do well and that they're gonna do their best and put their best foot forward for it. And that they know their audience; they're experts with their audience.

 

Lydia Chan (24:25)

Fantastic. All right, Christine. Well, thank you so much for joining the show. had a really great conversation.

 

Christine Sanders (24:31)

Awesome, thanks, Lydia.